In Ho or Jung? (Spoilers ahead)

At first, I hated the idea of Jung and Sul getting together. Jung was creepy and seemed to always have an underhanded motive towards everything and everyone. Him starting to be nice to Sul set off warning bells in my head.

In time, however, it started to seem like Jung wasn't as underhanded as it first appeared. If he is manipulative, I think it only manifests when he's determined to get something done, like when he wanted to get back his mother's picture frame and when he wanted Sul not to take another leave of absence. He is manipulative in the case of his father's relationship with the Bek siblings, as they have been bothering him for years. I don't think he goes out of his way to make trouble around him, though it seemed like the case when everyone started being antagonistic to each other (and to Sul). Mostly, it appears as though he just tries to live up to a standard but in the least tiresome way possible, and hates dealing with unreasonable people. I feel like he is ruthless when it comes to judging others because he judges himself harshly, too.

Enter Sul, who is equally ruthless, but only when she feels that something isn't right. Maybe this is what made Sul start to like her. She judges others according to a standard of propriety, as she is also critical of her own actions. And she is sensible. Among the crackpot cast of characters on this series, sensibility is definitely a quality that stands out like a desert oasis.

In Ho is a sweetheart (albeit a very rough one), but I think a relationship between Sul and Jung would lead to more interesting growth for the both of them, and a deeper exploration of character and psychology for us readers.

I feel that Sul is more than smart enough to handle Jung and his manipulative tendencies. It seems like his feelings for her at least are genuine, and that he respects her for her principles and abilities. I just worry that he takes their differences against her, because it seems like he is relying on her to be the one to "understand" him, as his father never could. That scene in his room where he types out his frustration against her really gave me a chill. What if she couldn't live up to that expectation? I personally think she could understand him, but to accept him is something else.

Jung, likewise, is certainly able to provide for her and give her a sense of security. He's always been there when she needed it, and it seems like he has some sense of chivalry, and his own ethical code. At the same time, his shortcomings still challenge her to really think about humanity, about relating with others, and the sort of choices she makes. It's NOT a static relationship. I feel like all she's done since meeting him is to grow--not just because of him, but because of the way is CHOOSING to respond to him--and that is so important. The awesome thing about a smart heroine is she doesn't just blindly go where the story takes her, but takes responsibility for her decisions and reflects on them deeply. Because we find such an intelligent and kind lead in Sul, I find that I trust her to lead herself and Jung to be better people.

I love Cheese in the Trap! I hope Soonkki-ssi takes us to a marvelous conclusion with these great characters.   

Very well written,


but holy... did you see the last chapter? Oo

Agreed, by the common usage Jung wouldn't really be considered selfish. He's considerate, but at the same time, it seems as if it would be a conscious choice rather than something he'd do naturally. But even if it's because he feels he should do it, he's still doing it, so I suppose it doesn't really make a difference whether it's genuine or not (unless a person who does it even not wanting to eventually gets some sort of mental issue from it)

I don't think ego is bad. I was just saying that Jung is egotistical and that the ego is linked to selfishness.
"isn't it selfish from Sul to be so concerned over who Jung hangs out with?"
No, considering others and their personalities isn't selfish.
"Isn't it selfish to openly snicker at Jung?"
It is and isn't. I don't think it was a conscious choice and the laugh just came out. It's a bit different than someone telling you a story of their life and wanting to laugh but holding it back -- if you purposefully laughed in that case that would be hurtful/selfish. But if we apply the most literal meaning of selfish then yes... but then, everything is selfish. *A*
"Isn't Sul selfish?"
A bit, yes. :9
"Since Sul consumes a lot of her time studying for her grades, isn't she self involved?"
I know you were teasing, but yes and no. She doesn't want to do it but gets that pressure from her parents. Of course, this doesn't change the fact that she is choosing to do it because obviously she'd rather be seen as a good child in her parents' eyes, or even just have a good job/living which is selfish ( *´艸`) Though, focusing on your needs (in this case, studying is a "need" otherwise she won't get a good job) is a bit different from only thinking about yourself all the time.

@ohhoworiginal
Totally agreed on every point!! し(*・∀・)／♡＼(・∀・*) ///

@Doonghe:
Was that for me? (If so, thanks!) And which chapter were you referring to? Every development in this comic has been riling me up quite spectacularly.... I've been having to check for new updates every day.

@Ixis:
Thank you!

I have to say the discussion on selfishness you're both engaged in is really interesting and amusing (in a good way). Indeed, it takes a certain kind of grace to be genuinely selfless and others-centered from the heart, but as far as daily decisions go, I think Sul and Jung have been (for the most part) externally selfless and considerate. Jung gets some points deducted though, I think, simply for being willing to take his manipulations too far (as in the case of AP Huh) even when feeling justified for it (e.g. being wronged in the past).

Yes t'was about your post (or maybe the one just above, ARH ARH!).

The last chapter is the last official one (S3C63 I think?). If you don't compulsively check the RAW so as not to spoil, I will remain silent =P

@Doonge

I am always tempted to check the RAWs despite not knowing what they're saying. Should I do it?   Is it worth it?   Hmmm

Looking at raws is ONLY SUFFERING!!!

Ahem, in any case, yeah, as I think I might have said somewhere, it's impossible for someone to be truly selfless unless they just let themselves waste away and die (and get nothing out of it). Even those that dedicate their lives to helping others do so because they generally get a feeling of joy/accomplishment/etc out of it which, while not damaging to others, is still selfish. Eating food is selfish, and you need food to live. The entire act of living is selfish!! But, indeed, the definition of the word selfish is very broad and covers from "sustaining your own life" to "becoming a serial rapist murderer because you get off on it". Although I think people typically use it more in the sense of "doesn't consider others"... haha

I'm chocked that this thread even exists. Is it something wrong with the female species (women are from Venus) that we don't see the obvious? Have we gone so long in the "fixing and healing" of men that we are prepared to die for it? TRUST YOUR INSTINCT! MEN KILL THEIR GIRLFRIENDS/WIFE'S ALL THE TIME. Jung is a sociopath. He killed a snail on the ground just for the hell of it (pointing out he is an adult not a child). He manipulates his environment and uses people for his own selfish needs. Why this is such a great read is that (like it is in real life) something people like him gets very good at so it's not so easy to notice it. Men like this is prompt to violence and needs professional help to deal with these emotions and learn empathy. My god I hope they break up soon.

Aren't you conflating hell of a lot of generalisation in one go?

But more importantly, what's this story about the snail? Jung killed a snail? It's been so long I didn't read CITT I don't even remember... where does he do that?

ps: thank you for your post though, I always wondered if there was a problem with me because I killed all my girlfriends (quite systematically), but now that I know that all men do it all the time, you lifted a big trouble out of my heart: it's normal!!!

Personally, I hope that In Ho never develops feelings for Sul, but that's probably just wishful thinking on my part.
Their relationship is perfect the way it is; In Ho supports Sul physically and she seems to be supporting him emotionally. He's becoming a better person having been around her, and it's so sweet, and I don't want a love triangle to ruin their dynamic and make everything complicated. Since he won't get her in the end, I'd rather avoid that situation altogether and just have them stay as best friends. :/

SPOILER:

I wouldn't mind if Sul ended up with either of them. I like her with Jung and I love the relationship she has with In Ho and how protective he is over her. But if Sul is going to be with Jung in the end, which I can almost guarantee will happen, please spare In Ho from that drama and let their relationship remain the way it is now. But I'm biased; I'm reading this mostly for Sul, In Ho, and his character development (but more for In Ho!) I think he's such a sweetheart and he's getting better as the story moves along.

Can't agree more with xMina!

I know In Ho has so many flaws, but so does Jung (imo actually, Jung is worse than In Ho, character-wise).

While In Ho sure is selfish, there are also times when he really care about other people (especially Sul). I've read till the latest RAW chapters, and even though I don't really understand what they're saying, I know that In Ho has improved so much as a person.

Probably what I'm saying seems biased (since I'm a big fans of In Ho ahah xD; ). I wasn't a fans of In Ho (at all!) at the beginning, but after reading it till the latest chapter, he really is becoming a better person and changed so much (even though he still goes on 'rampage' sometimes xD), and I do think that you'll totally change your opinion of In Ho once you read till the latest chapters.

I love Jung, but I don't like his way of 'telling' people to not messing with him. And tbh, I was totally dumbfounded when I read that chapter where he ripped the rabbit doll and the one with the photo frame lol. And the way he treated Sul during season 1 doesn't help either.
I see him as a jerk, but an adorable jerk at that, so I forgive him xDD (I was squealling like crazy when he did that TT__TT emoticon lel).

It's obvious that I'm an InHoxSul shipper (although I like JungxSul too), but even I pretty much know that Sul will most likely ends up with Jung, so like xMina, I just wish what's really best for In Ho. I just don't want him to get hurted over something like unrequited-love.

If it's possible though, it'd be awesome if the ending would be JungxSulxInHo, making a threesome lol

All these postings is proof that people are seriously into CITT. Which is good, since I love it.

1) someone mentioned Sul as being 'selfless'... I semi-disagree. She does stand up for herself, and she's reaching with all her strength for the high-position in her collage that I suspect she wants more due to competitiveness even more than for the scolarship. lol

2) In Ho hasn't leached off of Jung's dad... that family are the ONLY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD who's money he would never take. *snickers* So In Ho... In Ha, however, is definitely the family leacher. And a stupid one who kills off her own 'food source' rather than keeping her crap out of that area.

3) I voted for Jung rather than In Ho just because I see his maturity as higher... I think his wariness about having his violent or dark side seen too easily would leave Sul with much less to appologize for in life. I would cringe to be hooked up to someone who had such a hair trigger and who would be willing to make people 'buy him off'.

That said, everything I see as a negative in those men, upon reflection, seems to have a close mirror within the other one. They express it wildly differently, but the basic 'flaw' is generally the same.

Violence... In Ho, more frequent, but Jung seriously more scary!
Social Disconnection... In Ho, a constant nomad who doesn't bring along connection after he moves on, but Jung rather hovering 'above' the group and usually unable to even BEGIN a true connection.
Weirdly expressed passions... In Ho would rather run away and nurse his sense of victimization by Jung (a strangely 'weak' espression of a ferocious anger, but definitely a form of passion) rather than accepting physical therapy offered by Jung's father and taking a chance on returning to the music he is brilliant at and loves best (which literally makes In Ho is own worst enemy!), Jung stuffs almost all of his passion deep inside where no one can see, yet, like the internal combustion engine, it powers a lot of his dark behavior. He will smile to someone who is crossing a line, never tell them they are crossing said line, but get them back in a way they can never trace back to him. Or in the case of the panty thief, he cornered the guy alone and then proceeded to use far more violence (to please himself) than was strictly needed to bring the guy in.

Sul, meanwhile, has effected both of them for the better. Not changing them so much as, by her example, offering them options other than what they currently own. A brand new skill set, so to speak. And in my own life I have found out how cool that can be, when you figure out you can just turn an easy right rather than be stuck going disasterously forward or wastefully backward. If you follow my meaning

@elvensong

What a wonderful analysis! Great insight into these parallel attributes between Jung and In Ho. I think there's a lot to be said about a woman who can affect change in these men so set in their (dysfunctional) ways. Man I can't wait til we get over this plot slump where it doesn't seem like much is happening relationally!

I put in my vote for Inho -- he may be selfish but it's not a fundamental character weakness. It's something that CAN change with experience and growth. Jung's actions from the beginning set off alarm bells for me. In real life I would have absolutely nothing to do with people like him. Sul is making a serious mistake in not thinking that those actions will eventually turn to her.

This is the comment that scares me a bit for the future of the characters:

Ixis wrote:The bit with the frame was similar. I don't think it was that he cared about the frame that much, it's just that it was HIS (by association) and he didn't want anyone else to have it. Thus why he'd rather have it destroyed than let anyone else have it.

The glimmer of hope in this is that Professor Baek told Jung's father that having someone to care for may change him. I hope that's true, but it's not going to come easy to anyone involved. Season 4 may be the most epic yet.

This is my favorite webcomic!!

I chose Jung. Everything that I have seen hasn't put me off yet. Sure his behavior is different from most protagonists, but I don't think he's evil. If anything, that situation at the party showed just how clever he is capable of being. I actually laughed. Also, the frame incident could have been motivated by the fact that the friend didn't respect his authority. Jung told his friend no and that "friend" went behind his back and asked his father because he felt would say yes. The line was definitely crossed and understandably so.

I personally think Jung is just misunderstood which puts him in a bad position. His father believes he's weird, so he is constantly being scrutinized or blamed. Instead of asking, his classmates/friends are constantly assuming things about him and blaming him. So far he hasn't hurt anyone but the neighborhood pervert, and rightfully so.

I personally think that Sul is a pretty versatile character. What I see so far, Sul only needs someone that can listen to her and comfort her. IMO, if we look both In Ho and Jun as a person, disregarding their status and everything, both are able to support Sul. Jun only has the upper hand due to circumstances (perhaps).

On a second glance, In Ho might be the better character; sincere and pure. However, despite Jun's flaw, which he begins to realize to be something quite 'different' from normal, he manages to accept and adjust just for Sul. I think that's pretty admirable, however twisted it is. Which brings me to my next point: I think it's a matter of who needs Sul more. And I think, Jun needs Sul more than he thinks he does. And and, from the perspective of a reader, it is more interesting to see how their relationship plays out. I mean, Sul is an overall 'moral' character. How is she ever going to accept Jun's distorted tendencies? To what extent are they able to compromise? This is one of the main reason I like CITT so much. She doesn't accept everything just because. She actually thinks.

That's my two cents on this topic. I'm a Sul x Jung shipper till the end.


(At one point, I honestly think that Jun can read minds. I still do. The number of coincidences are uncanny lol).

^^^^^I mean Jung. Zzz.

I really think Jung/Sul is more interesting.

Just, a relationship like Inho/Sul, we can see it in a lot of stories. But Jung is a sociopath. That's the point.

In Ho and Sul are like, cat-and-dog. They are very comfortable to each other, and OKAY it's really cute. But, isn't it very "ordinary" ? I mean, there's a lot of couple like that (Ah Young and Joon for exemple). But a couple Jung/Sul is more.. original ?

Jung seems like a charming perfect prince BUT he's not. He's a sociopath. And we know it. What's interesting is how Jung is with Sul, and if he's really sincere with her. At least, Inho/Sul, maybe, is a very cute couple. They are close friends, joking, making fun of each other, arguing, they take care of each other but finally, every relationship looks like this. So, maybe it's easier to recognize ourself in this couple, so, I'm okay with InhoSul couple.

Still, I prefer Jung. Because, even if he's the perfect guy (everyone wants a Jung XD), he IS different from what we can expect. Have you ever seen a perfect boyfriend like him (handsome, smart, kind, sometimes mysterious, very charming, with a GOD DAMNED smile) that, even if we know his sociopath side, we can't totally hate him ?
Okay, it's normal that some people don't like him. But it's because they see how suspicious he looks. So, they prefer In Ho because his personnality and relationship with Sul is a "déjà-vu" so it's kinda reassuring ?

I feel like it.

anyway, Cheese in the Trap is life *^*

Once Jung, always Jung

I like both but I don't think either would fit? As of now (from what I've read).....I can already see a lot of character development so that opinion will probably change. I'm all for whoever Sul "picks".

Based on the way the story is developing, she might end up with InHo in the end...

I've reread the series something like 20 times, so I have a big ole opinion on this one, haha! Sorry for the essay and hi, I'm new!

So I love Sul. I love her character to utter bits and respect everything she stands for.
She's honest, upfront, hardworking and values integrity. Whenever she is faced with a problem, she publicly stands up to deal with it like an adult, relying on her family and friends to do the right thing and back her up. It never occurs to her to protect her image, because doing what's right. It's all about being direct.
This is the exact opposite of Jung. The bad, not complimentary kind of opposite.

He responds only to things that are personal to him. When he DOES respond, it's disproportionate and violent. He doesn't want to stop people from doing something he doesn't like, he wants to punish them until he feels satisfied. InHo explained fairly early on how Jung has Acceptable Lines. People are allowed to have personal boundaries, but he never tells people where they are. He never warns them openly when they're about to cross them, there's no second chances and when he decides people need to be punished for what they've done, he never tells them why it happened. People like InHo and Sul literally stumbled across one of these lines meaning no harm. In Sul's case, she only had intuition to help her see how Jung tormented her for a year, and she never fully understood why. The reality of Young Gon's stalking, Nam Joo Yeon's bullying and the even Jung's 1-on-1 threats were because he caught her chuckling in his direction.

Part way through season 3, Jung says quite clearly "She gets angry when I'm honest, and hates it when I lie". And then he resolves to simply be even more subtle with his manipulations and hide what he does from Sul. They start getting along better, but what that entire sequence hinted at was that there is a very basic disconnect between their characters. I don't think Sul would have been okay knowing Jung destroyed AP Huh's and Gong Joo Yong's relationship because of the scholarship debacle. I also don't think she would be okay knowing he kept tabs on her at uni through Jae Woo despite her efforts to deal with her own problems.
I'm pretty desperate to know what she'll think of the fact that Jung blackmailed InHo away from the entire Hong family by using his own girlfriend's safety as the bait.

As the story is shaping up right now (S4 ch19 fflllbrbrb) I think the drama is far from dead. While InHo is the healthier guy of the pair for sure, I'm actually just hoping that Sul will find out the whole story so she can make a clean decision instead of being lead along by lies and half-truths.

Team Sul, if that makes sense!

I don't really think it is matter of choosing between the two boys. It is not a love triangle to begin with. It is about delicate relationship between Jung and Seol. Seol does understand Jung. Perhaps not entirely but definitely more than anyone. I feel the story is about both of them affecting each other and changing each other for the better.

Jung all the way!!!

jung of course